Episode 79: Evaluating Job Offers - Beyond Salary

In episode 79 of Accessible Finance, we answer a listener's question on evaluating job offers beyond just the salary. They delve into the importance of assessing benefits such as healthcare, deductible plans, health savings accounts (HSAs), retirement plan contributions, vesting schedules, and other compensation elements like PTO, work flexibility, and commute costs. We emphasize the significance of converting all benefits to gross income to provide a comprehensive comparison of total compensation packages. We also discuss potential red flags like lack of retirement plans, long vesting periods, and an opaque benefits description. Ultimately, the episode provides a thorough guide for making more informed career decisions.

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Read the Transcript

Episode 79

 Welcome to episode 79 of Accessible Finance. I'm Eric Johns. And I'm Rachel Johns. Let's dive in. Alright, Eric, today we are going to be answering, um, a question that we actually got somebody write in that said, I got a new job offer, but how can I tell if it's better than what I have now? What things should I be looking at?

What questions should I be asking? Yeah, that's a great question. Alright, so oftentimes, and we've talked to people about this, um, especially when you're young and starting out, when you see that number. That they're offering you on the paycheck, that is the most tempting number. That exists. Correct. But it's very, very easy to be swayed by that and to forget how to value or that the other things that come that don't necessarily show up in your like biweekly paycheck.

Right? Um, have a value, right? So what are some of the first things, aside from salary, right? Salary's, easily quantifiable. What are some things. Aside from salary that people tend to overlook or devalue, um, benefits, right? So healthcare, health insurance. Mm. Um, that's the biggest, I think dental and vision sometimes are provided or included, but what percentage they're gonna cover for healthcare and then what that entails.

Right. So like what are you actually getting? What's the deductible of the plan? What's the max out of pocket? Right. Is it a just a high deductible health plan? Or you know, is it kind of considered premium health coverage? 'cause that's. That's significant. Yeah. For our family, I think roughly speaking broad, broad numbers, we're talking like 25 to $30,000 a year.

It's a big number. And if we were to try to get, you know, coverage with a reasonably low deductible Yeah. You know, call it a thousand dollars per person, 2000 max out of pocket per person, which doesn't sound that low to me, but apparently it's low these days. It is. And thank goodness, because I have been seeing my medical bills lately and those numbers are nuts.

Yeah, they're not them all. They're not great. No. And I think. To, you know, if you're going from, like, if you're just starting out and you're getting a W2 job and you know, they're like, and we pay for health insurance, it's really easy to be like, oh, okay, fine. Chances are if you're in your twenties, maybe your thirties, or if you've always had a W2 job where that's been provided, you have no idea.

What health insurance actually costs. It's also very much worth noting that not all coverage is equal. Right? We were just talking about what the plans look like. Mm-hmm. You know, some restrict now to health providers. So there might be an Ochsner specific plan or an LCMC specific plan, right? So that matters.

Um, and then as well as the, you know, premiums maxed out of pockets. What are copay? There's infinite flavors of health coverage that we're not gonna exactly dive into. But the idea is you wanna have some idea. Uh, some ability to quantify that in terms of like, convert everything to gross. Mm-hmm. Right? So that, you know what I mean by that is convert everything to gross income and treat it as what would I need to be paid as a contractor?

Right. Which just means I'm a 10 99 employee. I don't actually receive a W2. Um, I'm not going, my, basically my employer's not gonna pay. Yeah. My portion of self-employment taxes, um, or FICA taxes rather. I'm gonna have to do it. So if you are gonna have to do it, you wanna kind of know what, how much more you would need to make to make that viable.

Yeah, because just as a brief aside, employers love to pay 10 99 because they get to deduct the expenses all the same. Yeah. And if I might be paying you, you know, $80 an hour as a W2 employee, it might be far cheaper. With benefits and everything else factored in for me to just hand you a hundred dollars an hour and say you're 10 99.

Yeah. Deal with everything else yourself. Right. I get out of FICA taxes. Mm-hmm. I get out of health insurance and 4 0 1, um, retirement plan matching, which happens to be the next thing we'll talk about. But again, yeah. I think it's important also to look at, um, you know. Like Eric was saying, the replacement cost, right?

So like what would you be paying if you're paying your own FICA taxes? Mm-hmm. What would you be paying if you're paying for the health insurance plan? Now it's important to note that what the plan that your employer is providing may not necessarily be the plan that you would choose on your own. Um, but it's still worth X amount of dollars, right?

Mm-hmm. Um, because if you're young and healthy, you might be happier to have like a higher deductible. Um, or a higher like max out of pocket 'cause you're not hitting that Correct. Um, but yeah, I think that, you know, even if you're not necessarily looking for your own health insurance plan, going online, shopping around and seeing how much it's worth.

Is really, really important. Correct. Um, okay, great. And again, like Eric was saying, dental and vision kind of fall under a different umbrella than your typical like health insurance policies. They're usually add-ons. Mm-hmm. If you have a company that, um, covers that, congratulations, right. That's some companies will do HSA matching, right?

So they'll offer high deductible health plans or access to high deductible health plans, and then they'll contribute to your health savings account, which is. You know, a viable, um, strategy. If you have significant cash flow and are younger and are not looking to use health insurance, the company can contribute and you can treat it, you know, as a tax deferred, potentially tax-free savings vehicle.

In that case though, Eric, like, how would somebody try to quantify that, right? Like, we know it's difficult, the offering of an of a health savings. Um. Account is amazing, but if you are somebody who's not really in a position to be able to take advantage of it, it's worth Right. Nothing to you. Correct.

Correct. Um, but like Eric said, like if you have a pretty high cash flow and you're able to, on top of meeting your other, like goals mm-hmm. And your financial targets, um, contribute some to an HSA. That's amazing and, and just the offering of the HSA itself I would think would be worth something. Mm-hmm.

In addition to the matching. So Yeah, absolutely. Um, it will really be dependent in that situation on like your position. Sure. So one thing that I mentioned earlier, right, or another thing that I mentioned earlier is retirement plans. Mm-hmm. So many companies don't offer them just straight up do not offer retirement plans, which is kind of wild this day and age.

Yeah. But the bigger institutions do, however, they are not all equal. Right. So some companies might match around three or 4%. Some, you know, will match, you know, 3% if you don't do anything. Mm-hmm. 2% if you don't do anything. Um, I believe it's ochsner's 2% if you don't do anything. And then they're 50% of the first 4% I wanna say.

So that's essentially, you know, 4% matching, but they're gonna give you 2% just regardless. So if you, even if you're not interested in, in, in contributing. But the idea though is if I make a hundred thousand dollars every percent that the, um, company's willing to contribute or to match. I'm gaining a thousand pre-tax dollars.

Mm-hmm. Does that make sense? So like they're putting that money in my retirement account on a pre-tax basis. Right. So like, I'm gonna have to pay tax on it when I withdraw that money. Sure. So I don't wanna think of it as after tax dollars that's not the same. Right. Does that make sense? So like, if a company has 1% more matching, but the other company's gonna pay me a thousand dollars net more, I'm happier with the, to just actually receive that picture.

Take a thousand dollars. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, because, so essentially like if they're putting. You know, 2% and you're making a hundred thousand. So if they're putting $2,000 into a retirement account for you, um, part of that $2,000 before it's grown, before it's done, anything is earmarked for the government.

So like, it's probably a good rule of thumb to imagine that it's worth what, 70%? No, this should be more than I think it, I think it's more than that. I think it's isn't, I think it's more than that. The idea though is that there's some flexibility there. Like if they were to pay you a thousand dollars more, you have to pay the FICA taxes upfront.

But then you can defer it. So I guess you're getting the money net of FICA taxes is kind of my point. Does that make sense or net of their half of the FICA taxes? I'm getting a little in the weeds here. Very in the weeds also. Sorry. The one thing that I wanted to point out though is we're looking for NAP FICA taxes.

Right, right, right. So FICA taxes. For those of you that you know are uninitiated, I guess, or just don't really care that much about your stuff, if you're a W2 employee though, you'll be able to see it on your correct, like taxes are just referring to the social security and, um, Medicaid, or I'm sorry, Medicare portions of your, um, taxation, right?

That's gonna be withheld from your paychecks, that it goes straight to the government. You've probably, you've probably seen your paycheck and then seen the amount that goes into your bank account and said, what the heck happened? Yeah, to the money I was supposed to get. So there will be federal withholding, state withholding social security withholding and Medicare withholding.

Mm-hmm. So FICA just refers to the Social security and Medicare withholding combined. Right. So the idea is. Um, we wanna try to quantify as much as we can the benefits of being a W2 employee and that that specific employers are going to offer you for working for them. Mm-hmm. Right? So there's more to compensation than just the, the number that you know.

Yeah. Your friends might ask you how much you make. Like ultimately we want you to be able to do some type of napkin math to be able to quickly say like, okay, so I have my salary, which is worth X amount. But then you have these other things that are a bit harder to quantify and the goal is to be able to quantify them, to add to said salary, to say, okay, my total compensation package is X.

Right? Um, and it helps feel like you're comparing apples to apples when you're comparing different job offers. Um, so the retirement plan is a big one. Um, again, not every retirement plan is created equally. Mm-hmm. Um, how might somebody go about valuing. A retirement plan. Like let's say that you have one, you know, job A doesn't have a retirement plan, right?

Job B does have a retirement plan. Um, that's already a huge deal, right? Correct. But then how do you, but now you need to quantify it. 'cause Job A is gonna pay you more. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. So, uh, you can look at the co, you can look at the either matching or employer contribution. So employer contribution is referring to the employer putting money into your retirement plan.

Whether or not you defer a single penny of your salary, like you just said, with Ochsner doing like the 2%? Yeah, they do 2% flat, I believe. Mm-hmm. Then the. The, um, the matching refers to how much of the employee deferral percentage will the employer match. So it's very, it, it's convoluted, but just an example will illustrate it.

Some will say, I will, like, let's use Ochsner again. Mm-hmm. So, Ochsner has an employer contribution of 2%. That means if I make a hundred thousand dollars, Ochsner's gonna put $2,000 into my retirement plan. Whether or not I defer a dime awesome. Or whether or not that my, uh. Deferral into the retirement plan is anything right?

Yeah. Whether or not it exists. Then they'll match 50% of the first 4% of my deferrals. So another 2% correct. So if I now contribute $4,000, 'cause it's 4% of my gross, right? 4% of my a hundred thousand dollars. Mm-hmm. We're gonna say it's 4,000. So I'm gonna defer $4,000 into the plan and then they're gonna match.

They're gonna match 50% of my 4%, which is gonna be, you know, 2%. Mm-hmm. Or in this case, $2,000. So they're gonna give me half of that. However, if I go and match $10,000, or if I go and defer 10%, I'm allowed to do that up until the cap of 23,500. If I'm under, you know, 50, they're still just doing the two, they're still gonna give me 2000.

Right, right. So that's why, that's why you see like 50% of the first 4%, 'cause they only care. They're gonna cap it. They're not gonna give you 50% of everything you contribute. Okay. So correct me if I'm wrong here, I know for us. When we are talking to clients, prospects, friends, whomever mm-hmm. We will tell them till we're blue in the face.

Contribute up to the matching, always contribute up to the matching. Absolutely. It's free money always contribute up to the matching. Correct. So in this case, right, I would imagine that we would advise somebody to value that retirement plan at $4,000 or whatever percent of their salary, right? Yeah. Um, so you should value it at the entire matching.

I think so. Think that's should be doing the matching, I think. I think that, I think that's reasonable to do. And even if you're not doing the matching, the very first year. Right. The idea is that it's money that's still available, whether you're choosing to take it or not. Mm-hmm. It's part of your compensation package, so you should be quantifying it up to the full match.

Right, exactly. Okay, perfect. What else is on the horizon? Um, the investment options and fees in the 401k plans do matter kind of a lot actually. Particularly if you're gonna stay there for a while. We've seen. Huge variance. Absolutely. So some are virtually free. Yeah. Right. They might be $50 a year or something.

I, I believe Ochsner's is actually relatively nominal. I think it's something like that. You know, like $20 a year or something very low. That's amazing. Um, and then the expense ratios on many of the funds, some of the, some plans will give you access to Vanguard funds. Right. Which are typically going to be lower cost.

I would say the majority of people. And what they tend to advise you when they come in and do benefits presentations and stuff is the target retirement. Date funds. Correct. Um, to be clear, that's not a terrible option. Um, if you have no idea what you're doing. Yeah. Right. Like, it, it, it, they're made for average risk tolerances, not the worst thing in the world.

I just wanted to say that briefly. We don't have to go into target date funds and their viability. No, and I think honestly, like when we're talking nap maps, you can be a lot worse. These are. These are things that may be too granular for a typical person who's going through and doing napkin math. Mm-hmm.

But if you have a, a close friend or a partner or somebody else who has their, um, like 401k options available that you can look at and compare mm-hmm. It can help you to, to know what. Is available or how to, you know, compare your accordingly. Yeah. We're in the fortunate position where we're able to see a variety of retirement plans, so it's a lot easier for us to know whether one is high or not.

But typically you're kind of functioning in a vacuum when you're so right. There's two things you're wanting to look at, right? Yeah. So you can find this information in, usually in what's called the summary plan description. Just a really tiny, tiny document. It's very easy to read, and it's, it's usually not very difficult.

It's usually not very easy to find. Yeah. Um, even for, you know, we, we will go to client's houses and they'll, they'll log in and say, Hey, find it for me. I don't know where to click. And it still can take some time and say again what it is called? Summary plan description. Yeah. Right. So they're supposed to tell you.

What expenses and fees are gonna be associated with a plan each year. But even sometimes in the, in the SPD, it's still hard to find. Yeah. Well they'll, they'll also use generic language. Yeah. Like this plan is subject to the fees of the custodian and yada yada. Yeah. And it won't actually give you, like, it's 1.25% a year.

Right. Right. There will be some of these documents somewhere, a breakdown of the fees, but sometimes it's very difficult to find that. But the point is, you're trying to find two things, right. The first is you're looking at the individual investment options and seeing how viable they are. What are the expense ratios?

Like how are they managed? Are they actively managed? Are they passive? Are they tracking indices? Are they comfortable with an investment strategy that you want? Mm-hmm. Do they offer target date funds? If you're kind of, you know, a bit unsure where you should be. Yeah. And you just want to have average, you know, risk tolerance, whatever, and you wanna just put in a target date fund, do they offer that?

And what do the expense ratios look like? So what are their offerings and how expensive are they? And then the second point would be, what are they charging you just for the benefit? Of holding your money inside of their plan so they get to charge that. Yeah. Sometimes advisors will be on plans, right? So like, I'm a fi, I'm a, you know, financial planner, financial advisor.

I couldn't go and sign up to be a, you know, a plan fiduciary and, you know, give, give people advice on their investments and everything else. But then I would charge them a fee, right? Like, so there's, there's that, you wanna look for what the fee that the plan is paying. So there could be, you know. The, the companies that are holding the plan might charge a fee.

The advisor on the plan could charge a fee, so you want to kind of net all of that out, add everything up and find out what the. Fee is that they're charging you every year just for having your plan there. Because if you have a large balance Yeah. Or as you accrue money in your 401k, it's not unheard of for you to get, you know, $500,000 in there.

Yeah, well, 1% of that's five grand a year. Yeah. That's just coming off the top as fees before even the expense ratios or anything else. That's a really goods point, because sometimes it goes up to two, north of two, sometimes three. I mean by the time that people are. You know, five years out from retirement, and they're looking seriously at working with a financial advisor or somebody like that.

Their largest assets are typically the tax deferred 4 0 1. Yeah. The 401k balances are the largest assets. Mm-hmm. And so you're taking large percentages that don't really. Change. Right? So we're not looking at, it's not like the more that you make, the smaller amount they take, it's still No, not at all.

Yeah. So they're gonna, and that's gonna come off the total account and then expense ratios function the same way with the individual investments. So yeah. Right. So there's one charge for just the whole plan usually. And sometimes it's nominal, sometimes it could be, you know, $25, $50 a year, or sometimes it's, most of the time it's percentage based, you know, so 1%, 2%, 3%.

And oftentimes, you know, we will have. Somebody inquire about our fees and we might say, oh, okay, we cost, you know, 80, 90 basis points to work with us, or 1%, let's say, to work with us. Yeah. And they're like, oh, that's so expensive. And you look at their 401k and they're paying like two and a half percent. And you're like, well, what is all of it doing for you?

Right? Like, how many times have you met with your 401k advisor? And they're like, I have a 401k advisor. So that's That's so true. Usually are just meeting with them during the benefits presentation. So yes, it's hard to find. Yes, it's convoluted, but if you're able to check the expense ratios, it's worth it.

And the plan fees that are associated with your workplace retirement plans. You, it's to your advantage to do so. It's one of the first things we do with somebody that's coming over and working with us. Absolutely. Um, and so then some of the other areas that we would look at that, um, people, you know, should try to quantify, um, but that may be even less difficult to quantify are gonna be things like, um, paid time off more difficult.

Yeah. Um, I, you know, for that one at least you can quantify like. How much money you make per day. Sure. And you could count it that way if you wanted. Um, you could, you also need to look at whether or not those days are like use it or lose it or whether they roll over. Mm-hmm. Things like work flexibility in the wake of COVID, there's been a lot a move to Yeah.

Work from home matters, remote stuff. Exactly. And so if that is something that you value highly, right? That's something you would have to kind of internally assess. Like, what is that worth to me? Yeah. Um. And whether or not that's an option, how flexible they are. If you've got kids, Lord knows flexibility is of the utmost importance.

Right. Um, also then, uh, commute time, right? Like how far away is the job actually from you? What is the cost in the commute? Do you have to pay tolls, you know, what have you parking? Um, and then career growth opportunities is another area as well. Mm-hmm. Are you looking at. You know, staying with this company for a while, have they, you know, do they tend to promote from within?

Do you have kind of a clear picture of where you wanna go or are you kind of stagnant there for Correct. For some time? So those are some other areas absolutely. To look at there. Um, so then again, like we said, you wanna try to quantify all of the things some more easily than others and kind of sum those up together.

Um, but. Even still while doing this, it can still be incredibly tempting to follow the larger price tag. The larger number on the paycheck because it's big, it makes you feel successful, like you've made it. It might represent more money today. Yes, yes, yes. So the deferred, uh, gratification is like definitely mm-hmm.

A challenging thing. It will set you up certainly for your future, but you may not, especially if you're right outta college, you might just be like, I worked really hard for this. Like, I'm ready. Right. Um, now there are sometimes some red flags that people may overlook as a result of a very large. Paycheck number or a number bigger than you may have expected.

Um, Eric, do you have any top of mind that come? Yeah. Um, not having any retirement plan, that's typically not great. I would, I would also add that if they're trying to pay you as a contractor, it's very important. Yes. Owning your own business, you can take some deductions. That's almost never going to outweigh the, um, additional costs in terms of self-employment tax.

And then really the, the headache sometimes of, of running your own business and all the things that are gonna fall in your lap now that your employer would otherwise be responsible for, including, you know, being responsible for your own retirement plan and, and, and health insurance. But anyway, so retirement plan, um, vesting periods, we haven't talked about that, but no, vesting is essentially a way that retirement plans can limit access to money.

It's a retention tool for employers so they can have, you know, cliff vesting or graded vesting. Cliff means you have access to 0% of it. It's all the employers if you, if you separate from service before the time period. Yes. It also, it doesn't just apply to that, it also applies to like earning PTO bonus and bonuses and all that stuff too.

Yeah. There's all kinds of deferred comp Yeah. Uh, payout structures with, uh, vesting schedules. Right. So, um, but typically there will be like, you know, a, a two to six year, um. Graded or, uh, like five year, three to five year cliff. What that means is I will be entitled to none of the retirement plans. Like it'll still work the way that we talked about.

Maybe they're like, you know, maybe they'll match 6%, the first a hundred percent of the first 6%. Yeah. So their plan is great, but they will give me access to none of it. If I leave the company before five years. Yeah. Right. Or they'll do a graded schedule, which means I'll get access to like 20%, one and 40% after year two and so on.

Right. So they'll give you access to a little bit more over time to incentivize longevity with the firm. Yeah. Now if that, which makes sense from their perspective for sure, but if the vesting period is abnormally long. That could suggest some, uh, high turnover problems at the company. Right. Or I mean, if you just want to use the company as a stepping stone, you know, you know, you need this client services role so that you can go and open your own RIA or something.

Yeah. Well, you probably don't, you might be willing to sign on for this. You might still be okay with it, but you need to know like, hey, look, I should just not count any of this money because I know I'm leaving in like two or three years. Correct, correct. Exactly. Exactly. Um, and then also, you know, if you're.

In the middle of, um, if you've gotten the interview, they're now going through to the offer stage and they're being cagey about, I mean, there's this commercial, I don't know if you've seen it, there's this commercial, I think it's for Indeed. Um, this guy's at a, and I've seen it a million times this summer with the kids, but this guy sitting across the table from this woman and he's like, how's the salary?

And she's like, competitive. And he's like. Like what kind of competitive? Like competitive or competitive? She's like between competitive and competitive and then like his phone goes off and indeed gives him a salary. If you're ha having to pull teeth to get information during like the, I mean, it may be a bit more during the interview, but like if you're in the offer stage and they're not being fully transparent about your bonuses, the package, the entire package and benefits.

I would be nervous about that. Yeah. It's actually kind of frustrating when employers don't list the, uh, compensation in the job description. Yeah. That's kind of frustrating. Yeah. But. You know, that's how it's, it's what it is they're trying to be, you know? Yeah. But before signing on, you should know the entire compensation package for sure.

Important. It's important to understand the benefits. Yes. Yes. They are part of the compensation package. It's not relevant for them to just give you a gross number. You know, you'll be making $80,000 and you have no way to quantify that's good or bad. Relative to the other offer that gave, you said you'd be making 90.

Exactly. And how frustrating to get to a job. You've now let you know the other job. Offer go away, and then you realize that what you expected or what you thought is not what it. It is, right? Mm-hmm. Um, so this is why, you know, bottom line, there are some major takeaways essentially from here. Um, number one, right, would be to always evaluate the entire compensation package, not just the salary by, you know, essentially going through the steps that we did and.

Creating a large addition problem. Go quantify all the things, um, the benefits, the retirement, the flexibility, you know, again, assess what things are most important to you in a job. I will say that after having kids, flexibility in the job became a lot more important to me than it was prior to having kids.

Sure. Um, so your values may change as well. I, I think vacation days are a big one that people overlook until they. Reach a point in their career where their earnings are increasing and they're ready and they're no longer limited by the ability to earn the funds. Yeah. Or have the dollars, the access to the dollars.

Right. Like in your early career, in your twenties Right, right. Outta college, you typically don't have an extra, you know, 10, 20 grand. That's a year mining, buying around for an extra Disney trip or ski trip or wherever it's gonna be. Yeah. Ski trip. Um. Universal? No, no. Um, forget Wade. Yeah. Snowboarding. So, um, you won't have the money lying around, but at the point in time you do, it's gonna be lot more relevant.

You know how many days you actually get to spend with your family on these kinds of vacations, right? So you might want to take three or four vacations a year. You might have the funds to do it, but you're. Schedule's limiting and your workload is too demanding for you to actually enjoy your experiences, then That's right.

That's a factor That might matter, especially when you get to, you know, higher earning levels. Like if you're talking like, okay, this job is like 150 K or 200 K, even that, but it offers, you know, 10 vacation days a year versus now I have an offer that's, you know, maybe a hundred, 120, but it's given me. 30 vacation days or something.

Right. Maybe my spouse is a high earner as well. Correct. Has that application and in addition to that, um, it's also important to look into what they're like. Maternity leave options are as well. That matters. Absolutely. Super huge. Uh, the United States is not known for being super great about this. Nope.

Usually pretty terrible. Um, yes, but different companies have vastly different for sure. Absolutely. Oh my goodness. Yes, we have absolutely seen that. So it matters a lot. Um, so if it's something that, you know, again, when you're. Fresh out of college, right? You're in your twenties. You may not necessarily be thinking down the line about having kids.

Um, but if that's something that even plays into your thought process, it's certainly worth asking about and knowing about. And then, you know, there are even fewer companies that offer anything, you know, uh, close to a paternity leave. But again, certainly worth asking, um, like you stayed with me for. A week, right?

So he had, uh, two weeks and it was at a certain time and he negotiated being able to move one of the weeks to after the kids were born. And I will tell you. Oh my. I couldn't have done it for myself, so it was very, very much appreciated. Absolutely. Um, so again, in the vein of like vacation time and stuff like that, at least ask about maternity or paternity leave.

A hundred percent. Just don't stop at the gross figure. Do not stop at the number. Yeah. For the salary. Look beyond the number and try to think through, you know, medium term satisfaction, flexibility. Yeah. Or try to gross it all up. Exactly. I think to see what you're actually getting. Correct. Correct. Um, and then again, if you have any, um, write-ins or questions about any of this, please don't hesitate to shoot us an email at podcast@equilibriumfp.com.

All righty. Thanks guys. Till next time. Thanks. That's a good one. Yeah. Yi yi. What? Trying to figure out how to.